Curse

Trylo · Sep 25, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

so i just wanted to post all the green canthan weapons people might be wanting to collect before they capture the elite spell, Ether Prism;

The Spell

Ether Prism (25energy, 2 cast, 10 cooldown)
Gain 0...2 energy for each point of Energy you have.

So... what good is this? you lose about 23 energy, so you have to start casting this spell with more than 58 energy to get any benefit. Well, even an average run of the mill ele uses around 80 energy builds, so yes this can get you a hefty sum of energy back. BUT WAIT! what if we add in those +15energy/-1 energy regeneration focii/wands? we get a maximum of 30 more energy, making this spell quite decent. for those who are a tad less lazy, you can also have 2 sets of weapons to 'switch' weapons midbattle to utilize your energy regen and Ether Prism at the same time. now on to the green weapons;

Canthan Greens

Chung's Focus:
Energy +12 (req. 9 Energy Storage)
Health +45 (while enchanted)
Energy +15
Energy Regeneration -1
(~10-18k)

Tarlok's Flagon/SnapJaw's Powerstone:
Energy +12 (req. 9 Energy Storage)
Energy +15
Energy regeneration -1
Health +30

(these might be the most useful as 9 energy storage is almost a must and the +30 health is always welcomed. market price ~15-20k)

BahnBa's Scepter:
Earth damage: 11-22 (Requires 9 Earth Magic)
Halves casting time of Earth Magic spells (Chance:20%)
Energy +15
Energy regeneration -1
(~10-20k)

none of these are very pricey, and the powerstone comes in a hot pink color too!

Collector's Items (factions only)

Storm Artifact:
(req. 9 air magic)
+15 Energy
+12 Energy
-1 Energy Regeneration
+30 Health
(5 Mantis Pincers)

Flame Artifact:
(req. 9 fire magic)
+15 Energy
+12 Energy
-1 Energy Regeneration
+30 Health
(5 jade bracelets)

Earth Scroll:
(req. 9 earth magic)
+15 Energy
+12 Energy
-1 Energy Regeneration
+30 Health
(5 dragon roots)

Frost Artifact:
(req. 9 water magic)
+15 Energy
+12 Energy
-1 Energy Regeneration
+30 Health
(5 dredge incisors)

Craftables

Maatu Keep is somewhat easy to get too as it is not very far into factions, and offers a variety of +15/-1 wands and focii to be crafted.

(thank you ensign)

Notes
Most information is from:
www.guildwarsguru.com
www.guildwiki.com

This is mainly so i remember, i just felt kind enough to post it all!

Ensign · Sep 25, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

You can craft +15/-1 wands and foci at Maatu Keep in Cantha, as well.

Peace,
-CxE

SnipiousMax · Sep 25, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

So how does this skill compare with Ether Prodigy then?

Evilsod · Sep 25, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

It might be worth the investment... But if you get seriously e-drained or need a bit more spam giving no time for yet another 2second cast energy management skill your still screwed.

Think about it... you get to low energy because you needed to blind a warrior and heal party a bit more than normal or you got hit with slightly more Power Leaks than you'd like... well good luck, you have 0 energy. Or maybe you have some, switch to a +30 set, cast it... 2 second cast time? You could hit that frigging thing with a flatbow.

This skill will never outshine Ether Prodigy... it does have more potential than the crap they released with factions though. Second Wind my arse.

Phades · Sep 26, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

So how does this skill compare with Ether Prodigy then?

It doesnt. It does work well with focus swapping, but to hit the x2 gain, you had to have the modified energy storage score at 12 or higher. Ether prodigy works fine at lower levels, allowing for more generous splits in attribute distribution. Anything that interupts, amplifies the energy cost, or causes energy drain in any form ruins the skill. In essence its like a reverse second wind, because your post casting energy score is what matters.

Hyprodimus Prime · Sep 26, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

You guys are missing one crucial point. With the +47 energery gaind from the new set of weapons, you gain 94 energy sure, but once you go back to your old set, you LOOSE 47 ENERGY, what does that leave you with? unless you have 94 energy, you are going to have 30-40....wth, its not worth it. And without the +47 energy from the weps, you need to wait till you are at half energy to use, if you use lesser energy, thats full energy every 30 sec, which isnt so bad I guess. But the thing is you can not go below 50% energy, that means 30 sec spam till 40ish, renew energy, 30 spam. With this said, you cannnot use high energy skills, they will eat the energy right out of you eneven with atune and 4 regen. The only build I can see this usefull is Mark of Rogort and Glowing Gaze, but thats 5 sec recharge. I dont know if im missing anything, but this skill doesnt look as good as it does first glance.

Ensign · Sep 26, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

It's the most unwieldy piece of emanagement in the game, but if absolutely everything falls into place, the returns aren't that bad. By that I mean, you *need* 12 Energy Storage to even think about using the thing, and you need to focus swap up to your 108 energy set to cast it. Even then you need to be casting it on a pretty fat reserve of close to 60 to get a good profit out of it. The energy returns if you can pull all that off are pretty good, actually...40some energy every 12 seconds, so like 10 pips...of course I doubt you can spend all that in the time you have to work with, and that might not even be worth it given all the hoops you had to jump through to make it work at all.

If I could bind my hat swaps to my weapon swap keys, I'd try to use it. Don't know how that'd go.

Peace,
-CxE

Hyprodimus Prime · Sep 27, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

New discovery. On the contrary to my last pesimistic post, by doing a little more math ive found out that you will have to have 26 energy left, without any bonuses while at 76 max energy at 10+2 (my standard with a sup vigor and a sup element) Heres how this works

76+47=123 total energy, you need half of this to be full in order to get the full potential of Ether Prism and still have your max energy (76) after loosing your 47 boost from the wep set.

123/2=62 (rounded because thats what GW does) energy needed to turn into 123 after EP.

62-47 from the boost=15

15+5+10 (not 25 because of glyph of lesser which costs 5)=30 energy. This is not including regen. 1 sec for GoL, 2 sec for EP
3 sec x (4/3) regen rate=4 energy

30-4=26 energy needed.
Order of operations:
1) Use up 50 (base energy, not including regen) energy in whatever way you want, this leaves you with 26
2) Put your second wep set on so, if its in your second slot, press F2.
3) Cast Glyph of Lesser Energy
4) Cast Ether Prism
5) Return back to wep set 1.

After round 1 with full energy, rinse and repeat, you will need 30 sec for GoL to charge and that means you get an extra 40 energy to play with (30s x 4/3=40) 40+50=90 energy total to use within 30 sec. that means 3 energy a second which can go fairly quick. As long as you have 26 at when GoL recharges you will be fine.

Cebe · Sep 27, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Umm, I think people seem to be missing the point here about Ether Prism.

Has anyone seen how many potential enchantment strippers there will be in Elona? Let's take a look at the other Elementalist Energy Storage Elites:

Elemental Attunement: Elite Enchantment
Ether Prodigy: Elite Enchantment
Ether Renewal: Elite Enchantment
(also, in NF Master of Magic: Elite Enchantment)

Notice anything? Any trends at all? Now let's look at the others:

Energy Boon: Elite Spell
Ether Prism: Elite Spell

Perhaps the developpers of the game saw all the irritating threads people keep starting saying how elementalists will be powerless in Nightfall and did something about it to give us all a chance? Energy Boon may not be the greatest skill around, and Ether Prism may cost a lot of energy but if you have to do a mission where everything is a mesmer, necromancer, dervish etc... you may be glad of this skill.

Quit moaning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyprodimus Prime

Cast Glyph of Lesser Energy

That's the spirit!

Ensign · Sep 27, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Why the hell would you bother putting Glyph of Lesser Energy on a bar alongside a 10 pip elite?

The very concept of bringing GLE to use on your *ENERGY MANAGEMENT* skill of choice boggles the mind.

Peace,
-CxE

Hyprodimus Prime · Sep 27, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

What are you talking about? this is for Ether Prism, not Prodigy. I guess I did say EP...but now Ill have to clerify. In this thread EP=Ether Prism

Evilsod · Sep 28, 2006, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Umm, I think people seem to be missing the point here about Ether Prism.

Has anyone seen how many potential enchantment strippers there will be in Elona? Let's take a look at the other Elementalist Energy Storage Elites:

Elemental Attunement: Elite Enchantment
Ether Prodigy: Elite Enchantment
Ether Renewal: Elite Enchantment
(also, in NF Master of Magic: Elite Enchantment)

Notice anything? Any trends at all? Now let's look at the others:

Energy Boon: Elite Spell
Ether Prism: Elite Spell

Second Wind: Elite Spell, worst E-management ever
Energy Boon: Exhaustion for that, are you kidding?
Energy Prism: Needs some serious control over how much energy you use and doesn't protect against e-denial

Elemental Attunement: No protection from heavy e-denial but still brilliant when covered.
Ether Renewal: Was good, but Anet took the word 'balance' out the dictionary.
Ether Prodigy: Can be used under severe energy denial, can be recast quickly, exhaustion only becomes a problem if you can't wait an additional 10 seconds.

It may not be an enchantment, the main problem with eles, but its still pretty bad. But in comparison with the other spell skills its brilliant.

i Valinor · Sep 28, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

it could just be my silly math, but dosnt it read gain 0-2 energy for each point you have. so if you have 30 energy(after cast) and use it at a lower rating say 1 for 1 you end up with 60. if you have it at a higher rating and you use it you gain 2 points for each 1 you have already you should have 90e when its done casting.

thats pretty sweet. normally if im running fire or earth i use glyph or energy to aviod the exhaustion, and if im running air i run eather prodigy.. but this added with some of the new ele skills is going to make me change my builds.

the 25 energy casts hurst i guess we will just have to see how it works out. i will hold judgment until i can use it

iV

Ensign · Sep 28, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyprodimus Prime

What are you talking about?

Using Glyph of Lesser Energy alongside Ether Prism. It is stupid. Stupid stupid.

Prism is very strong if you have 12 in Energy Storage for some reason, and don't mind playing the crazy focus swap game. It's pretty shitty otherwise. It's a poorly designed skill, but hey, you deal with what you get.

Peace,
-CxE

Falconer · Sep 28, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

One of the biggest things about this skill I notice is that unlike most others it doesn't give the target exhaustion. This frees up a lot of skills for consideration which would have been hard picks before such as gale with their added exhaustion... normally it's the exhaustion limit I find which limits the heal party animal. Also it pairs very well with a single attunement, while not locking the energy expenditure into elementalist skills.

On the other side, as others have stated, when it's used the elementalist is most vulnerable to energy denial. And even before that, it's the very definition of 'you have to have energy, to make energy' (yeah money I know, but it fits). And it's not just debilitation of your 'capital', it's also active interupts. It hurts to 'lose' 25 energy to a savage shot or power block and not get the 50 back you were expecting. If you are going to play with it in PvP I heavily suggest bringing glyph of concentration lest any mesmers or rangers take notice of you.

That much said, with all the above, if you're ready to go through the focus swapping fun, it isn't a bad skill. Just as normal, be aware of the alternatives and what it brings to the table for you over them.

Phades · Sep 29, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Using Glyph of Lesser Energy alongside Ether Prism. It is stupid. Stupid stupid.

Prism is very strong if you have 12 in Energy Storage for some reason, and don't mind playing the crazy focus swap game. It's pretty shitty otherwise. It's a poorly designed skill, but hey, you deal with what you get.

Of course if second wind had the multiplying mechanic that ether prism has, then that might actually be worth taking. Ether prism would have to get its cost down (~10) and the multiplication curve improved to roughly (0-3~4) for it to be flexable enough to be considered usable even under focus swap conditions. Until then, eles are probably going to be chained down to ether prodigy until it gets nerfed into uselessness.

Evilsod · Sep 29, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falconer

One of the biggest things about this skill I notice is that unlike most others it doesn't give the target exhaustion. This frees up a lot of skills for consideration which would have been hard picks before such as gale with their added exhaustion... normally it's the exhaustion limit I find which limits the heal party animal. Also it pairs very well with a single attunement, while not locking the energy expenditure into elementalist skills.

No the trade-off for no exhaustion is an utterly moronic energy cost and a stupid cast time. So therefore it still absolutely sucks in comparison to Ether Prodigy. In comparison to Second Wind and Energy Boon its brilliant (lets be honest, what isn't?) but it still pales in comparison to the original 2 elites... Its yet another elite that is either purely to make up numbers OR purely for enemies to use.

Quote:

On the other side, as others have stated, when it's used the elementalist is most vulnerable to energy denial. And even before that, it's the very definition of 'you have to have energy, to make energy' (yeah money I know, but it fits). And it's not just debilitation of your 'capital', it's also active interupts. It hurts to 'lose' 25 energy to a savage shot or power block and not get the 50 back you were expecting. If you are going to play with it in PvP I heavily suggest bringing glyph of concentration lest any mesmers or rangers take notice of you.

Making you spend another 5 energy, And even then theres a chance the glyph itself may get distracted, or even better still, hit with a Psychic Distraction. Once you go lower than 40 energy (inc. focus swap) this skill has no use anymore.

Quote:

That much said, with all the above, if you're ready to go through the focus swapping fun, it isn't a bad skill. Just as normal, be aware of the alternatives and what it brings to the table for you over them.

If your prepared to go through focus swapping, managing energy perfectly, not casting when its needed most becuase otherwise your energy is screwed up... its too volatile.

Hyprodimus Prime · Sep 29, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Using Glyph of Lesser Energy alongside Ether Prism. It is stupid. Stupid stupid.

Prism is very strong if you have 12 in Energy Storage for some reason, and don't mind playing the crazy focus swap game. It's pretty ###### otherwise. It's a poorly designed skill, but hey, you deal with what you get.

Peace,
-CxE

Stupid? why? less cost means more initial energy means more output....this way you can cast other spells for longer without having to use EP.

y(f)=2(x-25)

as you can see y is a function of f, being twice the initial energy minus 25 cost from EP. As you lower the initial cost, you gain more revenue.

lets try an example, at 80 energy, with your current weapon set and elemnetal hat, you will need a 39 energy pool to regain full energy after casting EP and doing the wep set switch.

80-39=41, this means you can only use half of your max energy in combat before you have to recharge again. You have 20 seconds to use up 27(from the 20 sec regen)+41=68 energy. That means 3.4 energy a sec...and as much as that looks, it goes prettey fast, remember regen was already added.

the minimum pool of 39 energy was derived from:
80 base +47 from wep set#2=127
127/2=63.5 rounds to 64
64 minus 47=17
17+25(cost of EP)=42
42-2(4/3)=39, this is the energy gained from 2 sec of regen.

Now lets see what happens when we use glyph of lesser energy.

80 base +47=127
127/2=63.5 rounds to 64
64 minus 47=17
17+5+10=32
32-3(4/3)=28 this is for the cast of GoLE and EP

This means you need a minimmum of 28 energy which is much safer than 39.
At 0 energy, you will need to wait 12 sec to recharge to 28 to boost to 80. 11 energy makes a big difference. Using GoLE the first time, then without the second time should be good enough for any battle. GoLE aldo lasts for 15 sec, technically you could be at 0 energy, wait till 5, cast GoLE, wait 8 sec and cast EP and you would be at 80. IMHO GoLE makes a big difference. it also makes energy denial have a less inpact on you.

trialist · Sep 29, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

He is saying it is stupid because the whole point of bringing an ELITE energy management skill is so that that skill is able to help you manage your energy by itself. Having to use yet another energy management skill to make your elite energy management skill manageable, instead of just using that glyph of lesser energy on other skills to help with your energy management is stupid. An elite energy management skill should be able to stand on its own without needing another energy management skill to even make it workable.

Hyprodimus Prime · Sep 29, 2006, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Well Ele atune works well alone, works much better with another atunement.
I dont think there are many skills out there let alone elites that work well on its own without combos and such. the only one on the top of my head is Ether Prodigy, very easy to use. And Flare as a simple one. MS needs to be somehow managed either with GoR or GoE, ViM needs conditions to be spread, Powerful skills often have a down side, by chaining skills you can reduce unwanted loss, there will still be comesort of loss, because you do loose a skill slot, maybe more risky or takes more time, but your end product is usually better. Im just saying that with GoLE, you can be a little more liberal about your energy usage. Maybe to Ensign, another skill slot is more important as he has another string of skills he wants, but for me, It would be nuking central. nuking takes a lot of energy, and I want to get in as much damage as I can before recharging.